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	<title>Comments for Just wondering....</title>
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	<link>http://sworddance.com/blog</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 04:36:33 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on How to learn to drive a manual transmission in 45 minutes by lina</title>
		<link>http://sworddance.com/blog/2008/04/06/how-to-learn-to-drive-a-manual-transmission-in-45-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-17030</link>
		<dc:creator>lina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 04:36:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sworddance.com/blog/2008/04/06/how-to-learn-to-drive-a-manual-transmission-in-45-minutes/#comment-17030</guid>
		<description>Omg thank you so much. I learned more from reading this than my uncle and dad trying to teach me. I feel more comfortable driving my new car.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Omg thank you so much. I learned more from reading this than my uncle and dad trying to teach me. I feel more comfortable driving my new car.</p>
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		<title>Comment on How to learn to drive a manual transmission in 45 minutes by Gary</title>
		<link>http://sworddance.com/blog/2008/04/06/how-to-learn-to-drive-a-manual-transmission-in-45-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-17027</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2011 18:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sworddance.com/blog/2008/04/06/how-to-learn-to-drive-a-manual-transmission-in-45-minutes/#comment-17027</guid>
		<description>Awesome write up. Trying to get the 2012 Mustang 5.0L now. Its going to be my first manual car. Wish me luck  lol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awesome write up. Trying to get the 2012 Mustang 5.0L now. Its going to be my first manual car. Wish me luck  lol</p>
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		<title>Comment on A criminal says trust is stupid but security &#8220;experts&#8221; trust by Dan Hirsch</title>
		<link>http://sworddance.com/blog/2011/09/08/a-criminal-says-trust-is-stupid-but-security-experts-trust/comment-page-1/#comment-16998</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Hirsch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2011 23:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sworddance.com/blog/?p=1127#comment-16998</guid>
		<description>Allow me to be a security expert pretending to be a ID proponent.

All these scientist types are talking about the &quot;theory of evolution.&quot; And they&#039;re forcing it down our children&#039;s throats, as if it were truth. But it&#039;s just a theory! It says so in the name. Well, we have our own theory; why can&#039;t that be taught just as well?

See the problem with that argument? It&#039;s actually a fairly subtle problem, specifically that &quot;theory&quot; means something very different when a scientist says it vs. when a layperson says it.  The entire argument is based on a misinterpretation of that one word.

Your argument has the same problem.  When crypto experts discuss &quot;trust&quot;, they mean something completely different than the layperson&#039;s definition of trust, and far closer to your goal.  The entire trust model of PKI is the following:
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Users (AKA &quot;Relying parties&quot;) trust the CA to verify the identity of the certificate issuee.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;The CA may also, at their discretion, delegate their ability to verify the identity of other parties to the issuee. (i.e., issue more certificates, possibly subject to some limitations).&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;

If you don&#039;t see how that&#039;s different from saying &quot;A valid certificate implies that the site that uses it is trustworthy&quot;, read it again. Heck, if you didn&#039;t notice that every time that paragraph used the word &quot;trust&quot;, it always applied to one party performing one particular action.

Now suppose that Verisign hands you a certificate saying &quot;The one who holds this certificate owns sworddance.com&quot;. Does this mean that I should trust the information that I obtain on sworddance.com to be correct? No. Heck, unless I trust Verisign to verify identities, I have no reason to even believe sworddance.com is yours.

That said, you do have a good point. The threat model (which has nothing to do with &quot;trust&quot;, by the way) for applications is hopelessly outdated. It came from the early 60&#039;s, when the only way for a program to appear on a computer was for your computer manufacturer to send out the Field Circus to put it there, or for you to put it there yourself. Then came the ARPANET, which begat the Internet. Now, we need a very different threat model, but AFAIK, we haven&#039;t figured out what that threat model is.

Once we figure that out, capabilities (the mechanism that you&#039;re suggesting) may in fact be the right solution. But you can&#039;t even start thinking about solutions until you know what the problem is.

On a tangential note, Linux actually does implement capabilities. Not to the full extent that you are looking for, but enough of it that you can implement the rest in userspace. Interestingly, they aren&#039;t actually used that much, because they are far too complicated to use. The UI is too unweildy, and when I sit down in front of my computer, my goal is not usually to figure out how to give some process least privilege. My goal is to get something done, and if the security system gets in the way, well, security be damned. (footnote: I actually spent two days trying to figure out how to delegate the authority to administer the network to a qemu process I was running, without giving it blanket filesystem access or anything. Two days. In the end, I could not get the damned thing to work, so the QEMU process had to run as root.).

Also, note that, even if all applications use conditional trust (aka capabilities), there&#039;s one application that, by definition, has to be given blanket trust: your OS (or rather, whatever bit of your OS handles the security model). Put differently, you have to have permissions in order to delegate them.

So, no. Trust is not the problem. Fighting against trust will get you nowhere, because we&#039;ve already learned that blanket trust is bad (except where it&#039;s absolutely necessary). Instead, you should be fighting against outdated threat models, and the fact that all of our security UI is not the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Allow me to be a security expert pretending to be a ID proponent.</p>
<p>All these scientist types are talking about the &#8220;theory of evolution.&#8221; And they&#8217;re forcing it down our children&#8217;s throats, as if it were truth. But it&#8217;s just a theory! It says so in the name. Well, we have our own theory; why can&#8217;t that be taught just as well?</p>
<p>See the problem with that argument? It&#8217;s actually a fairly subtle problem, specifically that &#8220;theory&#8221; means something very different when a scientist says it vs. when a layperson says it.  The entire argument is based on a misinterpretation of that one word.</p>
<p>Your argument has the same problem.  When crypto experts discuss &#8220;trust&#8221;, they mean something completely different than the layperson&#8217;s definition of trust, and far closer to your goal.  The entire trust model of PKI is the following:</p>
<ul>
<li>Users (AKA &#8220;Relying parties&#8221;) trust the CA to verify the identity of the certificate issuee.</li>
<li>The CA may also, at their discretion, delegate their ability to verify the identity of other parties to the issuee. (i.e., issue more certificates, possibly subject to some limitations).</li>
</ul>
<p>If you don&#8217;t see how that&#8217;s different from saying &#8220;A valid certificate implies that the site that uses it is trustworthy&#8221;, read it again. Heck, if you didn&#8217;t notice that every time that paragraph used the word &#8220;trust&#8221;, it always applied to one party performing one particular action.</p>
<p>Now suppose that Verisign hands you a certificate saying &#8220;The one who holds this certificate owns sworddance.com&#8221;. Does this mean that I should trust the information that I obtain on sworddance.com to be correct? No. Heck, unless I trust Verisign to verify identities, I have no reason to even believe sworddance.com is yours.</p>
<p>That said, you do have a good point. The threat model (which has nothing to do with &#8220;trust&#8221;, by the way) for applications is hopelessly outdated. It came from the early 60&#8242;s, when the only way for a program to appear on a computer was for your computer manufacturer to send out the Field Circus to put it there, or for you to put it there yourself. Then came the ARPANET, which begat the Internet. Now, we need a very different threat model, but AFAIK, we haven&#8217;t figured out what that threat model is.</p>
<p>Once we figure that out, capabilities (the mechanism that you&#8217;re suggesting) may in fact be the right solution. But you can&#8217;t even start thinking about solutions until you know what the problem is.</p>
<p>On a tangential note, Linux actually does implement capabilities. Not to the full extent that you are looking for, but enough of it that you can implement the rest in userspace. Interestingly, they aren&#8217;t actually used that much, because they are far too complicated to use. The UI is too unweildy, and when I sit down in front of my computer, my goal is not usually to figure out how to give some process least privilege. My goal is to get something done, and if the security system gets in the way, well, security be damned. (footnote: I actually spent two days trying to figure out how to delegate the authority to administer the network to a qemu process I was running, without giving it blanket filesystem access or anything. Two days. In the end, I could not get the damned thing to work, so the QEMU process had to run as root.).</p>
<p>Also, note that, even if all applications use conditional trust (aka capabilities), there&#8217;s one application that, by definition, has to be given blanket trust: your OS (or rather, whatever bit of your OS handles the security model). Put differently, you have to have permissions in order to delegate them.</p>
<p>So, no. Trust is not the problem. Fighting against trust will get you nowhere, because we&#8217;ve already learned that blanket trust is bad (except where it&#8217;s absolutely necessary). Instead, you should be fighting against outdated threat models, and the fact that all of our security UI is not the problem.</p>
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		<title>Comment on How to drive a manual transmission by Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://sworddance.com/blog/2008/04/06/how-to-drive-a-manual-transmission/comment-page-1/#comment-16972</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2011 11:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sworddance.com/blog/2008/04/06/how-to-drive-a-manual-transmission/#comment-16972</guid>
		<description>[update editted by pat to avoid email spam crawlers] Lindsay.blaz (nearby) sbcglobal . net </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[update editted by pat to avoid email spam crawlers] Lindsay.blaz (nearby) sbcglobal . net</p>
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		<title>Comment on How to drive a manual transmission by Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://sworddance.com/blog/2008/04/06/how-to-drive-a-manual-transmission/comment-page-1/#comment-16971</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2011 11:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sworddance.com/blog/2008/04/06/how-to-drive-a-manual-transmission/#comment-16971</guid>
		<description>I like the e-brake technique, but I drive a &#039;73 Camaro and the e-brake is foot operated. Now what? (E-mail responses, please. I won&#039;t be back here.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the e-brake technique, but I drive a &#8217;73 Camaro and the e-brake is foot operated. Now what? (E-mail responses, please. I won&#8217;t be back here.)</p>
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		<title>Comment on How to learn to drive a manual transmission in 45 minutes by Rapid Roy</title>
		<link>http://sworddance.com/blog/2008/04/06/how-to-learn-to-drive-a-manual-transmission-in-45-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-16970</link>
		<dc:creator>Rapid Roy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 May 2011 08:09:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sworddance.com/blog/2008/04/06/how-to-learn-to-drive-a-manual-transmission-in-45-minutes/#comment-16970</guid>
		<description>I likes to drive fast.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I likes to drive fast.  <img src='http://sworddance.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on How to learn to drive a manual transmission in 45 minutes by Tom</title>
		<link>http://sworddance.com/blog/2008/04/06/how-to-learn-to-drive-a-manual-transmission-in-45-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-16968</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2011 14:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sworddance.com/blog/2008/04/06/how-to-learn-to-drive-a-manual-transmission-in-45-minutes/#comment-16968</guid>
		<description>Good article! I just can&#039;t wait to run my auto Ford Escort into the grave and buy a dang manual car! Thinking a del sol...lol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article! I just can&#8217;t wait to run my auto Ford Escort into the grave and buy a dang manual car! Thinking a del sol&#8230;lol</p>
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		<title>Comment on Internet businesses should pay sales tax by patrick</title>
		<link>http://sworddance.com/blog/2011/01/30/internet-businesses-should-pay-sales-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-16963</link>
		<dc:creator>patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 May 2011 21:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sworddance.com/blog/?p=815#comment-16963</guid>
		<description>@moss --

ah the righteous indignation, &quot;how dare you have to pay for those lazy Coloradoans?&quot;

You really should buy from Canada or some place overseas. Of course be sure to never buy anything local to avoid having to pay local sales tax.

You could always go Galt and refuse to work - thus avoiding all taxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@moss &#8211;</p>
<p>ah the righteous indignation, &#8220;how dare you have to pay for those lazy Coloradoans?&#8221;</p>
<p>You really should buy from Canada or some place overseas. Of course be sure to never buy anything local to avoid having to pay local sales tax.</p>
<p>You could always go Galt and refuse to work &#8211; thus avoiding all taxes.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Internet businesses should pay sales tax by Moss Parker</title>
		<link>http://sworddance.com/blog/2011/01/30/internet-businesses-should-pay-sales-tax/comment-page-1/#comment-16961</link>
		<dc:creator>Moss Parker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 May 2011 18:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sworddance.com/blog/?p=815#comment-16961</guid>
		<description>I was about to make an on-line purchase from a Colorado based company.  When I got to the final screen I noticed they were collecting tax.  I was pretty confident that the company (Webroot) had no nexus in Florida and by Florida law are not forced to collect Florida sales tax.  I called them to verify that they were located in Colorado and did not have a nexus in Florida and that the only reason they were collecting the tax was compliance with Colorado&#039;s law imposed when HB 10-1193 was enacted.  When I found that was the case I decided not to make the purchase.  Webroot lost the sale and Colorado lost the income tax residual.  I will continue to boycott internet vendors who are located in Colorado until this insane law is nullified.  That law has put Colorado vendors at a disadvantage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was about to make an on-line purchase from a Colorado based company.  When I got to the final screen I noticed they were collecting tax.  I was pretty confident that the company (Webroot) had no nexus in Florida and by Florida law are not forced to collect Florida sales tax.  I called them to verify that they were located in Colorado and did not have a nexus in Florida and that the only reason they were collecting the tax was compliance with Colorado&#8217;s law imposed when HB 10-1193 was enacted.  When I found that was the case I decided not to make the purchase.  Webroot lost the sale and Colorado lost the income tax residual.  I will continue to boycott internet vendors who are located in Colorado until this insane law is nullified.  That law has put Colorado vendors at a disadvantage.</p>
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		<title>Comment on PASSIONATELY answer questions in an interview by Francis Shanahan</title>
		<link>http://sworddance.com/blog/2008/10/05/passionately-answer-questions-in-an-interview/comment-page-1/#comment-16956</link>
		<dc:creator>Francis Shanahan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 14:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sworddance.com/blog/?p=159#comment-16956</guid>
		<description>Hah, another interesting question. I would like to hear the word &quot;immutable&quot; come out of the candidate&#039;s mouth. In .NET strings are immutable so you&#039;re generally better off using StringBuilder (a mutable or changeable object) as it cuts down on the number of objects created. StringBuilder is typically 1 to 2 orders of magnitude faster than the code you have.  If I&#039;m a stickler I&#039;d say your code will generate a compilation warning since &quot;s&quot; was used but never initialized but now I&#039;m just being imaginative and picky.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hah, another interesting question. I would like to hear the word &#8220;immutable&#8221; come out of the candidate&#8217;s mouth. In .NET strings are immutable so you&#8217;re generally better off using StringBuilder (a mutable or changeable object) as it cuts down on the number of objects created. StringBuilder is typically 1 to 2 orders of magnitude faster than the code you have.  If I&#8217;m a stickler I&#8217;d say your code will generate a compilation warning since &#8220;s&#8221; was used but never initialized but now I&#8217;m just being imaginative and picky.</p>
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